To Tony: A Response

March 30, 2009

*This is a response to Tony’s post which he just put up.  I was going to just put this in the comment box but I soon realized it was too long.  So read his post first, comment if you feel like it, and then if you want you can read this.*

Tony SigTony:

I’ll try and mention a few things that have helped me and that I think might help you; but in the end there’s no way I would presume to “solve” all your worries.

I am not sure if you are attending any specific church but I would highly recommend trying out churches in the liturgical tradition. (by “try out” I don’t mean to reduce it to “what liturgy you like,”  or “church shopping;” I assume that you would be searching out their doctrine and all, talking to priests/pastors)  There are many reasons why I would suggest this but I would point out one first, which is to me the most important; namely the Eucharist as focus and climax of worship.  The famous and late Orthodox historical theologian Jaroslav Pelikan said it like this –

“That as long as there have been Christians they have gathered around bread and wine; theories about it have changed, details on performance have changed, but that central practice has never changed.”

That at least, Tony, is some incredible continuity.  Certainly preachers all have their own interpretations, but the celebration of the Eucharist, and all that it entails, is contiguous with the whole of Christian history.  It has been a great help for me to slowly understand the Eucharist as more than symbolic – as the place where we offer ourselves up and are taken up by grace into the living presence of our Lord.  And, you are sort of right with Catholics, but also sort of wrong.  As our friend “quickbeamoffangorn” will tell you, since the de-latinization of the liturgy there has been a proliferation of different takes on the liturgy and there are even now some Catholics who have to “church shop” if they don’t want to be in a “spirit-of-Vatican II” kind of parish.  For instance in downtown Minneapolis, if you are a liberal Catholic you go down to the Basilica, and if you are not you go to St. Olaf.   Nonetheless, there is certainly more continuity within Roman Catholicism between parishes.  Though different “orders” emphasize different parts of Catholicism.

This is why both “Word” (ie-preaching, but not restricted only to this) AND “Sacrament” (ie-Communion, Eucharist, Lord’s Supper etc…) are the two central aspects of a worship service.  Now we were raised with a very low view of the Sacraments in the AG (but oddly, a high view of the worship service and an understanding that God met us in worship).  To us they were merely symbolic, and indeed, the symbolism is a necessary part of what is going on; but I would say that there is much more to the Eucharist than symbolism.  Be it “transubstantial,” “consubstantial,” or “real presence,” the great catholic traditions all assert that it is Jesus Christ himself coming to meet us in the celebration of Communion. I also want to comment on the problem of “multiple interpretations.”  Because I think that we are heirs to worst kind of low protestantism which believes that reading the Bible is an individual affair.  Just me and my bible, yep.  That reason alone, I think, has been the the cause of so many divisions within the protestant tradition:  This idea that ones interpretation is the be-all-end-all interpretation, which can only result in confusion (as you and I have experienced it) and division.  “I’m gonna leave and read the Bible MY way”  I see this for instance in the fall away groups within Anglicanism in the US.  There are 40 some odd “Continuing Anglican” churches and I expect there will be 40 more one day.

Let me humbly suggest that bible reading is a Communal affair, and even a graced one at that.  When you and I read the Scripture we should be reading it with Jerome and Chrysostom as much as we read it with Borg and Wright.  That is not to say that I believe in the Roman Magisterium, or in controlling Bishops, or that the older the interpretation the better – many allegorical readings by some church fathers are way out of the park – or whatever; but that there is a sort of hubris of Time in thinking that where we are right now is the full truth.  Certainly “historical” reads of Scripture have changed in huge ways over the last 300 years of “historical investigation” of Scripture and certainly in 100 years our readings will be different.  Continuity in this regard is not so much about monolithic readings of Scripture (as if it’s just one big book anyway!) as it is the mutual submission and self-giving in interpretation.  Wright calls this a “hermeneutic of love,” I call it “reading with the church.”

To sort of synthesize what I am trying to say I would say that it seems that you are still in a “bible-centered” Christianity;  I have found a “Gospel-centered” Christianity to be that which puts the focus where it needs to be.  That is one of the reasons that I am becoming Anglican as opposed to Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.  As Anglicans, we try to put the great Creeds and the core of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection at the center of our Ecclesiology.  You can be an anglo-catholic, Calvinist, Weslyan, liberal and it doesn’t mean that “your out.”  That is also why I can say that I am a “whatever-I-am-now.”  It’s not a lazy cop out of conviction, rather it is knowing that what I believe now at this very moment is not the whole of the Church.  I can struggle in faith and even doubt certain doctrines (though I don’t want to just give up in doubt) because my belief is centered in prayer, worship and Eucharist; I’ve been baptized and filled up with the Holy Spirit.

I was just watching Star Wars and Princess Leia at one point says to her enemy “The tighter you grip the more star systems are going to slip through your fingers”  That is sort of how I look at “truth” and “continuity.”

If I try and grip the truth, then fragments sort of pour out and I lose that certainty that I was looking for.  But “knowing” is more like being held by truth than holding truth.

St. Paul said it outright – that we only see and know “in part,” but one day we will know fully even as we are fully known.  So perhaps we are not reading the same book, but we serve the same Lord.

Back like never before!

 

Sunday mornings have become a sort of ritual for my baby daughter and I. 

Most other days of the week, she wakes up between 4:30 and 5:00 in the morning. My wife will feed her then try to coax her back to sleep as I roll over and over in an effort to convince myself I’m not really awake. Lately, Adelaide will fall back to sleep, at least most of the time, which is good for Julia, too. But eventually, I will glance over at the clock some five or ten minutes before the alarm should sound, 5:45, then shut it off, roll out of bed and get ready for work.

But Sundays are different. 

On Sunday, after Adelaide eats in the morning I’ll often take her into the living room with me and let Julia get another hour or two of sleep while the baby and I sit in the living room watching televangelists. The greatest part is that she is the happiest thing in the world when she first wakes up, so the morning is full of her cooing and giggling noises, which makes the early hour seem less of a challenge. Plus, nothing beats baby giggles as contrast to a good, old fashioned fire and brimstone sermon on the tube. A good time is had by all.

Now, let’s go back a few years, really lay the foundation for this comparison today.

I remember in my parent’s house, growing up, if the TV was on Sunday morning, it was probably on Charles Stanley. And I like the guy, for the most part. I never paid a ton of attention to him back then, but the snippets I did tune in to never struck me as anything weird or out of whack. He seemed like a normal guy. He was never yelling, never trying to scare people or pass judgement. I saw him as a wisened philosoph, though I probably wouldn’t have phrased it like that at ten to twelve years old.

But then we’d go to church, and it was anybody’s guess how the sermon would go.

Depending on what time of life I go back to, what city we were in, what kind of church we were at, I might hear a message that seemed to fly in the face of common sense, or I might hear a message that seemed too watered down for me to make heads or tails of. And of course, anything and everything in between; good, bad or ugly. 

Creepy pastors, smiley pastors, quiet pastors, beady-eyed pastors whole looked like caricatures of themselves; we ran the gamut over the years. And their sermons complimented or contrasted their personality differences. I noticed those contrasts, the differences in how each person came across, how they read the Bible, but again, at that age, it was my understanding and my vocabulary that lacked the depth necessary to explain those observations.

But this morning ritual with Adelaide has brought these contrasts to a very interesting head. 

The main four televangelists we end up channel surfing around any given Sunday are Joel Olsteen, John Hagee, Kenneth Copeland and good old Charles Stanley. I’ve seen it happen many times, these guys will be discussing very similar topics and purveying drastically different messages, and all of it based on the same Bible. One morning sticks out in my mind in particular.

First, Copeland was talking about money. No surprise there, he has sort of a prosperity bent to most of his career. I’m not making a judgement call here, just stating a fact. But, this time he was talking about financial adversity, so I stayed tuned in. It was probably only a couple months ago now, right after the first round of government bailouts are getting talked about, banks are going under, and this was his good, Biblical advice in tough financial times.

He went back to a time in his career (well, ministry, whatever) when he was preaching every day, working really hard to become established as a speaker, but then he felt prompted to make the move to radio as well. However, he was unsure he could afford it. My mind pictures him living in hotels, driving a crappy car that someone gave him, wearing the same suit gig after gig. Basically the same deal as a lot of my college friends who went into evangelism right after school.

So he essentially says no to God, he just doesn’t have that much faith, unless God can convince him it’s the right move. Long story short, Jimmy Swaggart calls up and offers to set him up, out of the blue, of course, on some radio shows. God told him to call, he says, so Copeland agrees. And here is where it got … weird for me.

He retells how he went from making $300,000 a year to $400,000 a month during this transition, thanks to finally obeying God’s command to go into radio.

Wait, what? He’s telling me about financial adversity? About a time in his life when he only scraped by on $300,000 a year? And then he was “finally” blessed when he “finally” obeyed God and went on the radio as well?

I had to click away. I mean, I make less than 10% of that a year and I’m pretty darn happy where I am. More money would be okay, but I’m not hurting, either.

Anyway, as I clicked around, the other guys were hitting the topic as well. Hagee was talking about Financial Armageddon in a multi-part series (isn’t the world always ending for him?), Stanley was talking about God’s provision and blessing in hard times (very down to earth and pragmatic), and Olsteen is smiling and blinking an awful lot about… well, about something to do with finances, anyway.

I just can’t wrap my head around it some days, and with Adelaide giggling in my lap, I flip from one guy to the next, wondering what their Bibles have in common.

I’ll be honest, I have a sort of bias toward Stanley. Of the four, he seems to be the most sensible guy, the most in tune with the central theme of the Bible the way I tend to read it, and the least emotional, flamboyant or inflammatory. Plus, he’s sort of part of my childhood, so I’m used to him. But this is only in my opinion, so while I would love to just toss the other guys, the outliers, out of the mix completely, I can’t help but think back to many of the church experiences I had when I was a kid. I know where these guys come from, each of them, I’ve been to the sort of churches that turn these guys out en mass. I also realize that Stanley probably seems watered down to a person who expects a fire and brimstone sort of urgency in a message.

* * *

And there’s the rub. This is all just my perception. My take. My perspective based on my personal experiences, tastes, and dozens of influences, many of which I may not even be aware of. I go to a church where I feel comfortable, a church that has drastic differences with many of the churches I grew up in. And the pastors of all those churches from my past, I guarantee if they were all in the same room they would disagree on many of these topics and how to Biblically interpret and respond to them. And I would disagree with many of them, too. 

That one Sunday morning, with Adelaide on my lap I was being told to expect the end of the world, or to trust God and obey his commands in quiet confidence, or to tell God what I need him to do for me and know that he’s promised to bless every last Christian abundantly above and beyond our wildest expectations. And sorry, but those ideas are not mutually compatible. Someone’s got to be right, but more someones, then, have got to be wrong, at least on some level.

So where does this leave me? I like how Tony (adhunt) recently characterized his place in Christendom, the Whatever-I-am-now category. Trouble is, this feels so subjective, so dependent on my mood, feelings and experiences. I want something authoritative and genuine and stable and constant, but as my life changes and my family grows and I get older, my ‘taste’ in church and my ‘understanding’ of the Bible invariably dictates what sort of church environment I’m comfortable in, which invariably changes how the Bible is taught to me, which invariably changes how I read the Bible. It’s a vicious cycle. And even if I find a place where I fit, what happens when life takes you somewhere else? Try moving to a different state and duplicating your church environment (if you’re not Catholic, that is, they’re pretty consistent, right?). Even if you stick with the same denomination, like we did growing up, the different varieties are numerous.

I always believed these differences were like personal tastes, so that people, who are all different, can find environments where they are each comfortable and worship the same God. And I still see that as valid, to a degree. But I also see that those differences often boil down to personal taste, to pastoral leanings and how each pastor, church or denomination interprets the same Bible.

If it feels like I’m floundering, it’s because I am. 

I wonder if it’s even possible to establish a consistent way to read the Bible these days, when life will be constantly changing and through it our circumstances and, often as a result, church affiliation. 

Uh... yeah.

And if this is possible, what’s the standard? The typical ‘Use God’s word as a measure’ rule doesn’t seem to apply here, because it’s not a question of morals or judgement, it’s a question of how to interpret God’s word in the first place. You can’t measure a ruler with a ruler, it is itself. So what is the measure?

And I wonder because I have a daughter who will be learning all of this the same way I did. When my place in life changes, how consistent can (or should) my wife and I try to be when it comes to church environment? On the one hand, I’d love to think my daughter might have a chance to be more grounded in one tradition and style of church than I was, but on the other hand I think my diverse experiences have been invaluable in shaping me into who I am today. As conflicted as I often feel, I also feel like I can see more of ‘the box’ than some people who’ve done it one way their entire life.

So I’m stuck. It’s like I can see the problems with all the various ways to read scripture and apply it to one’s life, since there are eventually conflicts with these interpretations, but I can’t seem to establish a way outside of my own subjective and changing tastes to establish the best possible route. 

Go ahead, quote a scripture, tell me how your way is the way to go. Then someone else can quote a different scripture to say you’re wrong, or misinformed, or a little off target. Then someone else can grab another passage or two, and say the two of you are close, but over here or there is the right path. And it goes on and on and on…

And I wonder, after a while, are we even reading the same book?

Tony Sig

I must admit to being distraught today.  At some point I would like to offer a full reflection on the things I am learning in my Philosophy course which have shown me how Christian thought is percieved in the public square.

But today something happened in class which I was not really ready for and which really stirred me.  Especially since it brought to mind a similar situation which had happened in another class I had been in.

Today we were just finishing up our lectures on David Hume.  Most of the class (including me) dug his good Scotish Empirical skepticism on the ability of pure Reason to deliver the goods.  But we also went through his “History of Religions” scheme, which I found completely pathetic ala Lyotard, but it obviously had had an effect on a young 17 year old girl in the back.  Keep in mind that we are also finishing up the section on Theistic proofs and Free Will vs Determinism.

For the last 10 minutes of class the professor asked various people in the room what they thought of Hume’s proposals. (My professor is an interesting story as well, son of an E Free pastor who went to Wheaton for Philosophy, then Belgium for grad work in Phenomenology, who now is an agnostic)  It came around to a sweet looking girl in the back who when asked seemed reticent to respond.  She found it difficult to say, but almost spontaneously she told the class that the entire Course so far, and this in particular, had really been making her question her faith.  She said: 

“You know, you just go through life for 17 years believing something, like the Bible or whatever, and this is all so very confusing.  I’ve been asking my Pastor about all this…”

Here before my very eyes was a young girl struggling to hold on to a faith that she had had for her whole life.  A few things happened for me at once.  I recalled my own transition from Fundamentalism to Whatever-I-am-now.  There were times when I would walk to the park on fall down weeping fearing that my faith was gone, that I couldn’t muster up one ounce enough to keep me going.  I recalled the sheer terror of that time (not that I don’t still struggle with things) and I know that I am a lucky one.  I was able to come out the other side with a tiny piece of stronger faith; but for every one like me there are countless who can’t make it – they are never able to recover from the sense of assurity that they once had; most leave completely, some migrate to the Mainline and hope that the Liturgy can hold their shreds together. (Which is why you should never judge a liberal.  If you were to scratch just below the surface you will inevitably find a disolussioned Evangelical who would love to “go back,” but they can’t.  And they probably have a faith baptized in fire that a conservative could never have)

It also made me recall my advanced Textual Criticism class.  For bible-centric folk, to learn about the thousands of manuscripts and their variations and histories, it can be a struggle as well.  I remember one girl in that class, a Pastor’s kid (and now my 2nd cousin-in-law), who said:

“Why didn’t they teach us this in Church?”

I wanted to reach out to this girl in my Philosophy class.  I wanted to tell her what I had been through, that it was all gonna be ok.  But I don’t know that it will all be ok for her.  And to be frank, if one never goes through these crisis’ of faith, I don’t know that we will ever grow at all.

I had always heard that people go off to the scary public universities and fall away from faith.  The blame was always left at the feet of the Universities.  I wonder if maybe we should be looking closer to home.  Our catechism classes and Bible study’s need to be able to account for the advances in Scholarship and we need to openly discuss critiques of the Christian faith so that our kids can have a bit of preparation for life beyond the quaint Pizza and Soda parties of Youth Group.

Tony Sig

Jeremy recently began a thread on Religious Pluralism, and his three posts are, as usual, well thought out and reasonably argued.  In my own typical fashion (ie-loud), I responded to a strain – if not the strain – of Pluralism which takes as a foundation the “unbiased” research of the Social Sciences.  I pointed to what I thought were inherent weaknesses in such an approach to constructing a Pluralism which seeks to actually mold a person spiritually or attempt to critique a religious tradition.  Namely the problem of the

- “Meta-narrative in a history of religions position,”

- “The Secular in the Social Sciences (with the built in irony of a “secular” take on religions which purports to form a transcendent universal religion based on its own religious agnosticism),” and the

- “The irrelency of the Social Sciences broadly concieved” as critiqued by a truly post-modern epistomology

That is to say it was mostly a polemical piece which aimed at the center of the majority of Pluralistic discourse that I am accustomed to hearing.

But I did not put anything positive in it’s place, and this abscence might seem to imply that I think all other religous people are in complete error and/or going-to-burn in the fires of hell.

I do not believe that.  And so I offer here what seems to me to be a few simple consequences which flow out of an creedaly orthodox and patristically influenced meditation on “other religions.”  I pre-suppose a crucial theological position.

“Knowledge” of God can never be accomplished by human effort.  Even “knowledge” which comes from nature or “natural law” is only possible by the self-revelation of a God who is by nature Love.  This is the orthodox position on Revelation and there is something that flows out of this.

It will not do to simply say that we agree with other religions on some “moral” issues.  This seems to me to be a weak and even prideful way of looking at common ground between faiths.  No.  If a Buddhist believes it is wrong to kill, then this is shared Revelation and not something which we just sort of simultaneously came to by looking at the world around us.  If a Muslim says that “Allah is merciful,” whatever the influence of the Judeo-Christian religion on Islam, this is something which is deep and can be called nothing other than a revelation of the Character of God.  We cannot portion anything specifically “Christian” off to one side and say that the things we have in common are but “moral” issues on some other side.

There are reasons that several of the Church fathers explicitly espoused a Universalist soteriology, and many others came real close.  That is, to take the Atonement and Resurrection seriously demand that we think about the effects of the Incarnation on the whole Human race.  Consider the reading today in the lectionary in Romans where Paul says that “since ALL died through the sin of the one man, so ALL are made alive because of the one Messiah“  I’m not saying that this “proves” my point, but that even as early as Paul, there was needed a reflection which showed the universal and ontological change which happened in humanity on account of the Gospel.  One which is not merely acquired by choice but by the very nature of what has just happened.

And so, if as Paul said, the Gospel “has been preached to the whole world” (a strange thing to say since he obviously knew that that was not the actual case, unless he thought this meant something other than the easy reading) then it should not be a surprise that we should find the real Spirit of God at work in people other than those baptized.  Early thought maintains that Christ is renewing the whole of Creation, not just the few elect.

So it seems to me that a religious pluralism, one that posits that yes some from different faiths may indeed find renewal by Christ at the end of the Age on account of their “faith” is an honest position to hold.

Christians do not “own” God, but we are stewards of the Mystery of Faith:

“Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again” Amen!

p.s. – Two great takes on this by C.S. Lewis can be found in his books “The Great Divorce” and the scene towards the end of “The Last Battle” in the Narnia series where “Aslan” and a “Colourman” have a conversation.

I am currently attending Confirmation Classes at my Episcopal parish.  If there is one thing you’ll discover when talking to Anglicans is that defining the term “Anglican” is really quite difficult to do.  Sometimes the “Via Media” seems more like the “Via anything-goes.”

As an academically minded youth I have found a treasure trove of books on Anglianism which have been helping me learn what it means to think and believe like a Prayer Book person.  I would venture to say this.  Anglicanism, before all other branches of Protestantism, is truly a body which takes the phrase “Reformed and Always Reforming” pretty literally.  Heck, they were even Prebyterians for a few years.  I am hedging my bets that they can keep it going, and hopefully with thinkers like Wright, Williams, Thiselton, Milton, Jenkins, McGrath, Polkinghorne, and Radner at the helm, we might end up looking more like Christ than we did yesterday.

Of course, first you will need a Book of Common Prayer.  The official Episcopal Church one is the 1979 BCP.  I have heard many complaints about this book  in conservative circles but I have found the book to be superior in most regards to the 1662, especially in the celebrations of The Great Litany, the Daily Office, Liturgy’s for Special Occasions (such as Ash Wed. etc…) and the Service for Holy Eucharist.  In fact it takes much of the 1662 BCP and updates it with the theories advanced by the famous Liturgist Gregory Dix which in the end have made the book a bit more Catholic than it’s predecessor.  Although there is, as there should be, a pentitential rite, the 79′ moves away from some of the near-groveling of the 1662 and in turn makes the whole service more of a thanksgiving and celebration.  So show some love for the ’79.  But, that is not to say that the 1662 (the sort of “gold standard” book – ie- the one the British colonized the world with) isn’t powerful, especially for the services for ordination, which I feel are almost purposely a bit weaker in the 79′.  So get one of those too.  To fill in the blanks, this MASSIVE tome on the worldwide BCP’s lays to rest the conservative argument that the 1662 is the “authoritative” book in the Communion.

{I have self-corrected an awful disparity on my part here}[Do not forget the Hymnal! Not only does it set out metrical melodies for singing the Psalter, but most of the hymns are second to none.  In fact you can get a combination BCP + Hymnal for easy worshiping!  My apologies TEC for overlooking this deep part of our theological life-blood]

There are of course many many books which purport to tell us all what Anglicanism really “is” but these days one needs two perspectives, I think, to really get a feel for it.  One needs a book from the perspective of “Classical Anglicanism,” which is inevitably Anglo-focused.  But the truth is that the formative years were all very, well, British.  I can think of no more thorough book than “The Study of Anglicanism” edited by Stephan Sykes, John Booty and Jonathan Knight.  In its revised edition it spans a substantial 517 pages with a brief “History” of Anglicanism at the start, from which it moves on to well researched essays on everything from Canon law to our Eucharistic theology.  Highly recommended.

But of course on also needs a book which paints Anglicanism as it actually is now, which is a non-Western church.  More people attend an Anglican church in Nigeria on a single Sunday morning than all the Anglicans in Britain, America, Canada, Scotland and Ireland combined.  We are now a World Communion (or are trying to be) and “An Introduction to World Anglicanism” from Cambridge helps us to get our heads around what Anglicanism is and where it might “be going.”

A very short yet greatly commendable book is by none other than Rowan Williams.  His little book “Anglican Identities” gives us some academic articles on Tyndale, two on Hooker, as well as Ramsey, Westcott, the poet Herbert, J. A. T. Robinson and an intriguing essay “Anglican Approaches to St. John’s Gospel.”  A must.

As Anglicans have tried to avoid Confessionalism, much of their identity comes from thier divines.  Another huge book which is a collection of pieces by no fewer than 100 thinkers and poets (not that poets aren’t thinkers!) “Love’s Redeeming Work – The Anglican Quest for Holiness” This book is a gem.

There are of course many other books which could be very helpful, perhaps this one on Anglican Ecclesiology, or this “Very Short Introduction” or “Anglican Approaches to Scripture“; but I only have so much time!

Economic Woes

March 7, 2009

Spring Break is coming up and I’ll throw a couple more posts out there.  Until then, here is a lengthy essay by none other than that thinker who idadvertantly dominates this blog; Rowan Williams.  I think that the fact that the Archbishop does not act like the two polar sides in Anglicanism want him to act shows that Cantaur is a preacher in the true sense, a man who speaks the Word of God indescriminately.  And George, he chides “protectionism” just as much as he does an “unregulated market.”  So I think even you’ll like it.

“The principles outlined a moment ago require a context not only of geopolitical and social analysis, not even of pragmatic recognitions of the limits of material resources or the opportunity costs of certain financial decisions, but of a comprehensive sense of belonging in a world – and a world that is neither self-explanatory nor self-sufficient, but is transparent to a deeper level of agency or liberty, that level that is called God by the religious traditions of humanity. In Christian belief, the world exists because of a free act of generous love by the creator. God has made a world in which, by working with the limitations of a material order declared by God to be ‘very good’, humans may reflect the liberty and generosity of God. And our salvation is the restoration of a broken relationship with this whole created order, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the establishing by the power of his Spirit a community in which mutual service and attention are the basic elements through which the human world becomes transparent to its maker.”

So I stumbled across this set of world religion cards called God Trumps, and I just couldn’t help but link it here.

You have to admit, they are pretty hilarious, if not a little too accurate at times. Just click on the Agnostic card to check them all out.

 

Or, click here : http://newhumanist.org.uk/1915 .

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